Official Luthiers Forum!

I sell a little wood from time to time and have always had trouble taking photos of the raw unfinished wood that show the true color and characteristics of the wood. I don't want to digitally touch up the photos, other than resizing. I sometimes wet the wood with a water mist, or an alcohol mist, but then have to re-sticker the sets. Over the past 30-40 years I've never found a really good set up for taking these photos. I've also tried external electronic flashes and various umbrella light diffusing. Natural light does not seem to work at all for me. Just wondering if there might be some better ideas out there. Any suggestions appreciated. Good luck with your various projects.-Bob

_________________
“ The meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it away” Pablo Picasso

Naphtha will evaporate after showing the color. Or a light coat of shellac which will sand off easily.

As for the photos, can't help.

Like Ed said, Naptha is good. But I see you are in Hawaii Bob. If you ever have any Koa to sell please let me know. I love the stuff. Heck, I've never even been there. Might be a good excuse for a trip.

Cheers,
Danny

How are your camera skills? Unless you have a photo studio or comparable lighting....

#1 learn to manually white balance and shoot in RAW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEeQRoX7x4c

#2 get a tripod if you don't already have one

If you don't have the appropriate studio lights or decent indoor lighting, your best bet is outdoors in the shade with Naptha or outdoors on a cloudy day. Put the camera on a tripod, white balance it (with white paper or whatever you have that is pure white) and then find the proper compensation for the perceived lack of light that you see through your eyepiece (IOS/Shutter speed/aperture compensation) . If done properly you can't tell that it's in the shade at all. Of course there is no such thing as constant settings that will always work, I use the histogram.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htY_ZzvEUTc

while reviewing an image and make adjustments based on what the histogram tells me. With a sedintary subject like wood this is a fairly easy task.

General rules of thumb-
1. keep your ISO as low as you can (easier to do with a tripod where you can shoot at 100 ISO)
2. Keep your aperture around 4 and try to keep the wood as close to 90 degrees to the lens as possible
3. Use a background that contrasts well

That said I'm usually too lazy to bust out my DSLR for pictures of wood, but then again I never really want it to sell anyway!

Hi Bob,
You might try using a cheap "hot light" set up - regular incandescent light bulbs in inexpensive parabolic housings(sometimes pet shops sell them for warming birds and reptiles). Since the light is on all the time you can see through the view finder what the picture will look like. You may not want a diffused light for shooting wood, and possibly a "raking" angle might work better.

You may want to do the same setup that a photographer would use to photograph flat artworks such as paintings. Good even lighting, color correct, no glare is your goal.
To do that two light sources are used. Each at a 45 degree angle to the ukulele set or billets you are shooting. You are basically making a copy stand (you can look that up on net. I used to use studio strobes for this kind of work but Just about any lights will work, good results will be obtained with photo flood bulbs in some kind of reflective holder. However if using photo flood bulbs it is best to use them on a dimmer then just before shooting dial them to full power. They burn out quickly if you do not. To reduce flare, use a black background. Velvveteen Is what I used. Depending on your setup you may need to control ambient light. I often did a lot of work at night.

There are other perfectly acceptable ways sort of simulate this setup with natural light. Use a black background again. Shoot on an overcast day. Take piece of black cardboard about 30" by 30" cut a hole in the center for your camera lens and shoot away. The black cardboard will eliminate frontal glare. In this example I would prop the wood up shoot on a low table with the velveteen swept up behind to wood. This is a good setup for 3d subjects. If you need a little more light here or there you can use reflectors of white foam core.

You could also make a light tent. A light frame covered with white ripstop nylon that is lit with natural or artificial light. Wet wood looks good with a soft even light as long as you subtract the glare from the frontal position with a black card with a hole in the middle for the camera lens.

Naptha will work but you have to move pretty fast with it and I wouldn't spray around as much as you will need inside.

_________________
Michael F Smith
Goat Rock Ukulele
http://goatrockukulele.com

I am somewhat a photography buff and have been taking photos for a number of years as well as I had my own dark room for developing black and white 35mm photos. My best camera is a 80 year old manual with a fantastic lens but my "Go-To" camera is my Nikon 5000 digital which can be set to manual, automatic or shutter priority and aperture priority.

First you need to have a camera that is at least capable of shutter priority which means you set the shutter speed and the camera adjusts the rest. That is the setting I would suggest if you don't know a lot about camera settings or don't want to be bothered with aperture settings or ISO (film speed). There are a lot of variables when taking photographs but shutter speed is the easiest thing to understand and will give you what you are looking for. If your camera can do all other adjustments it will be quite easy.

Next if you are taking a lot of pictures of wood and you want consistent results you should set up a little "studio" area. It can be as simple as a blank wall with no direct sunlight. A north facing window would be good as it would give you diffused lighting. I would however suggest you set up an area that you can control all the lighting. A small table in the corner of a basement or spare room would be ideal. A simple backdrop like a piece of poster board or blank wall (non glossy) is helpful.

You need to pay extra attention to the lights you choose. A regular light bulb will introduce a yellow or orange cast into photos and florescent lights are pretty much a No No in photography because they produce a harsh light and most will introduce either green or blues into photos. I would suggest you go to a camera shop and buy a couple of photography light bulbs. They will be daylight bulbs and will not introduce any colors. They come in a variety of wattage (mine are 300 watt but that is probably over kill for your needs). Then go to a hardware store and buy a couple of clamp on light fixtures with the aluminum reflectors. Some kind of stands for them so you can move them around will be very helpful (I have 2 microphone stands that I use).

A tripod is a must since you will need to use a slow shutter speed. Set you "studio" up and mount the lights behind you, one on the right and one on the left at about 45 degrees to the wood. Get yourself some white poster board and then point the lights 90 degrees away fro the subject. Use the poster board to bounce the light on to your subject, This will give you a very good even light with no hot spots.

When you have your camera set up on the tripod and are ready to shoot you need to adjust the shutter speed to about 1/60th of a second and take a shot. check the image to determine if it is too bright or dark. Adjust it until you get a natural looking picture and the colors of the wood are very close to the actual piece. A slow shutter speed will give you more depth in the colors and show up more detail in photos than a fast speed (That is a loose general rule but not always the case depending on a number of variables).

You will need to adjust the distance of the lights depending on their wattage and you will want to play with the angle of your poster board (make sure they are not too close to the lamps) But you will find the sweet spot where the lighting on your subject is completely diffused and there are no hot spots (bright areas or reflections)

It would be ideal if you have a place you can set up and not have to take it down and set it up each time you want to take a photo since it will just be a matter of making small adjustments to the shutter speed for different kinds of wood. If you can't leave it set up then either mark the floor where the tripod, lights and the bounce cards are as well as where your table is, or in a worst case scenario make measurements of where everything is. But either way you want to be able to reproduce the same lighting and setup so you will get consistent results and then all of your photos will look the same and be able to reproduce the colors of the wood.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,
Bob

Here is an example of what I am talking about using diffused lighting. This is a Gibson I just recently refinished the back on for a client. The picture was taken in my living room which just happens to have really good lighting. I have 2 picture windows that face west and have blinds on them so I can control the light pretty well. No photo lamps since the windows provide enough light to take nice photos. You can see in the reflections that I adjusted the blinds to give me a good diffused light source which is actually being bounced off of the ceiling. This is using my Nikon on a tripod using shutter priority. I am guessing it was taken at about 1/60th of a second which is too slow to be hand held. Notice how the wood has a lot of depth in color and the grain shows up really well. It also shows the true color of the wood. This is one of about 4 shots I did using different shutter speeds. After taking the shots I compared the photo to the actual color of the guitar and deleted the ones that were too dark or light.

I actually wanted the reflections in there to show off the actual finish but had I not wanted reflections I would have used my photo lamps in the way I explained in my above post. If you notice you can see what I referenced as a "hot spot" in the upper bout. It is actually the reflection of the ceiling. That is what you want to avoid and what you should be looking for when placing your lights and bounce cards.

Maybe this helps explain a bit more of what I am talking about?

Cheers,
Bob

I photo and sell a lot of wood on ebay. This is my very humble setup:

The lights are compact flourescents in soft boxes and can be seen at http://www.amazon.com/CowboyStudio-Cont ... B001T9AGLE ... They are light duty but as long as you leave them up and don't knock them over they work great. For most things I shoot just like in the picture, on a tripod, down at about 60 degrees on the subject with two lights just behind me over my shoulders. The dark backdrop keeps the reflection of the wall from lightening the subject. The main idea is to bathe the subject in even light with no unwanted reflections getting in the way. Basically the whole rig was just a few hundred dollars without the camera. The camera is a relatively inexpensive Canon DSLR. You can see the results I get here: http://stores.ebay.com/shabbychicguitars

Also for a nice primer on how to use light and manage reflections in photography, you might want to read Light: Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting which was a real eye-opener for me. Good luck!

Thanks for all the replies. I don't actually have any trouble getting good photos usually, though I do have my bad days. On my website, obvious URL, you can see that I get decent wood and instrument photos. I have been a photo buff of sorts for almost 60 years, and I do have good equipment, including all kinds of various lights and backdrops. It does however take a lot of time to set up for good photos, and my post was just a shot at seeing what ideas I might get to expedite the process. Like I do with everything, I can combine my ideas with those of others and sometimes come up with great new solutions. Good luck with all your projects.-Bob

_________________
“ The meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it away” Pablo Picasso

Hmmmm....

Bob-Now I remember why I don't post to forums!

_________________
“ The meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it away” Pablo Picasso

There's a wise guy in every crowd Bob. Hang around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really Bob?

My post wasn't meant to be anything but puzzlement.

I couldn't figure out why in your first post you said you were having troubles taking photos of wood but in your last post you said you have been doing it for 60 years and have all the equipment you need...

So I (and others) answered your post in detail as if you were a newbie at photography trying to explain in the simplest of ways how you could get decent photographs. When in fact you already know what you are doing and probably better than any of us.

I know I wouldn't have spent a lot of time trying to explain things so you could understand and would have just told you how I do it. I actually spent about 20 minutes writing up another post that I never made because after reading it I figured it would have been way over your head (stuff about ISO and Film speed), So I just hit cancel and never posted it. I came back later on and simplified it and that is what I posted. So that is why the icons...

If that is all it takes to make you stop posting at forums then I am surprised you got all the way up to 80 posts!

Sorry that offended you but I meant no offense at all, just curious why you didn't just tell people that you had plenty of experience and was curious about other techniques.

Bob



It may be that you can just spit posts out in a few seconds but I take my time and try to answer as concisely as possible. So you can think I am a "wise guy" but the time I spent writing a response trying to help someone (that really didn't need it) is time I could have been doing something much more productive.

Actually, I have found that is the easiest way to get an accurate photo of unfinished wood. After taking the best photo with my limited equipment (a daylight CF bulb and a Fujifilm F40fd point and shoot), I hold the wood next to the monitor and adjust the photo using Nero Photosnap (free software). I mostly use the brightness, contrast, and color balance functions.

_________________
John

You can turn day into night in Photoshop...

I like to use a tripod, good lighting and a remote switch for taking pics. I have found that well lit but indirect light works best for me. Oh and Bob I have checked out your pics of your raw wood. They seem fine.

_________________
https://www.instagram.com/fostinoguitars/
https://www.facebook.com/PuraVidaUkuleles/

Hey Bob, my apologies. Your response came across the wrong way to me. I thought you were kind of throwing a contradiction up to him. My regrets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can also take a bad photo and make it look pretty much exactly like the bare wood you are selling......hence my post. On Ebay, I have sold hundreds of guitar sets (including several hundred BR) and thousands of red spruce guitar tops in the last 12 years. I have not gotten a single complaint that the wood was not as pictured.
Other than some curly maple, I have never wet the wood to take photos.

_________________
John

Hey Glen, No need to apologize, I think any time we write something on a forum it can be read in two different ways... Good or Bad... As my explanation to Bob, I didn't mean it in any way other than being puzzled about the mixed message in his first post.



Some people think that adjusting an image after it was taken is somehow cheating but in fact any photographer that has their own dark room does that every time they develop an image. When I was doing black and white photography I had my own dark room and very rarely did I NOT dodge or burn parts of an image to enhance it. That is the art in the process. It is nice if you can take that perfect photo every time but they don't always come out that way.

Cheers,
Bob

One little tip regarding getting the colors right: most DSLR cameras have a setting where you can tell the camera the white balance or color temperature... basically what kind of light source you're using such as sunlight, florescents, overcast daylight, etc. My old Nikon and my current Canon were quite unpredictable when using the auto setting and colors could be all over the place, but when I manually set them to the exact temp of the lights I am using the results are pretty consistently true.

You can change the white balance in photoshop, and always shoot RAW. You can do so much more with RAW. For any photo you put on the www, you can shoot 1000 or 1500 depending how good your camera is. Rarely do you need a tripod or fancy lighting.
You will be dropping the dpi to 72 for web anyway. Flash is a no-no.